other fish stuff

Not sure if Shirley will ever shake this. I've given her a salt bath every day. The spot on her lip is smaller again, but not gone yet.

She's tolerated the salt baths better each time- sitting calmly, not darting about frantically so I end it abruptly. The last bath I upped the salt dose to a heaping tablespoon per gallon. But now she's harder to catch out of the tank. Trusts me enough she comes eagerly to the front if thinks it might be food time- but if I have the net she hides and crams herself into corners now. I'm afraid she'll injure another fin. I was able to get a close look at her pectoral fins while she was in the bath, and the spots seem to be where fin rays were damaged, probably broken from fleeing the festivum (who is out). Now she's keeping to the corner not because of me, but because the other angelfish are busy with eggs again (see next post)!

I took the smaller festivum out of this tank. Put him in QT with Foxface. Giving them up to another fishkeeper (with full disclosure that they might have a disease). I never saw Rascal threatening the angels, but I did see them leaning sideways and moving quickly out of his way. Are they leery of him because the other was a bully? or was he nipping at them when I don't see. Well, it doesn't matter now.

My ten gallon just has the two largest white cloud fry now. Someone has offered me a betta. I would really like to accept it but want to have the tank empty and clear of fish for two weeks first. 

If the disease is viral septicemia- it dies off if two weeks without a fish host. Because the angels all have the red bruising/streaks under the skin now. And I finally found description online that matches all the symptoms- including bleeding where the fins join body (which Miss Beautiful has) looking pale and sitting nose up (which she does sometimes, and the paradise fishes I had before did), swelling belly and internal bleeding (which a white cloud and maybe some guppies died of). Suspicious because it can be other diseases that have those symptoms, but all of them in my fishes that have died over the past year(s) makes me think it.

Terrible thing is there's no cure. It could be the bacterial version of the disease, but all accounts say that kills very quickly (within days). Whereas with the virus, some fish can overcome it and live as carriers for years. Not happy about this. Means I can't add any more fish to my tanks, until I'm sure the virus is gone. I was debating in my head, whether to try medicating one more time- with triple sulfa if I can find it- but it will do no good at all if this is viral.

Final notes: Tucker jumped out of his tank! A while ago I quit feeding him off my finger because even though it was cute, I told myself: one day he'll jump onto the floor. He'd still look up and leap, though, if I didn't give bites fast enough, or if he didn't see where the food went next to him in the water. Then I was feeding the minnows (Tucker already had his share) and I heard a splish and felt drops and laughed: "oh, he splashed me!" but then looked and he was on the floor by my foot.

I remembered to wet my hands- a quick dash sideways to dip them in a bucket of tank water that was luckily still sitting there. Gently pick him up and dropped back in the tank. He seems unharmed- but smart fish- has learned from it! This happened two days ago and even though he still gets super excited, dashing back and forth across the tank front when I'm near and looking up eagerly when I'm feeding, he hasn't jumped again, not once.

My second shrimp bowl still hasn't cycled. The nitrites have dropped but aren't clear yet. I'm amazed what those pond snails can withstand.

another fish post

Today felt long. I am upset with Foxface. He's definitely been harassing everyone in the 55 and if the behavior I saw was scale-eating, it's the last straw. Today I aimed to remove him from the tank but it was such a chore. First I needed a place to put him. There were baby white clouds in the QT and I found I didn't want to just ditch them. And there's more guppy fry in the tenner, that appeared yesterday. So I posted online and somebody came to pick up my six adult guppies earlier today- happy to get them. 

I moved the two amano shrimp out of the tenner, into the shrimp jar upstairs (I know that overcrowds it but as soon as the second jar is cycled I'll move two of them into there). Because I know amanos can eat fry. Then I moved the white cloud fry into the tenner. Cleaned the QT and topped off with a few more gallons, put the heater back in and adjusted it. Then the hard part.

Catching Foxface. First I tried a trap. I filled a fish bag and suspended it sideways, with food inside. The fishes hadn't eaten breakfast, they were all hungry. I propped a large fish net across from the bag and sat down to wait. It took a while, but eventually the angels and smaller festvium got over their fear of the net and bag and came looking for the food smell. Foxface hid when I first did things in the tank and he was so cautious. He watched everything.

I fed the other fish, right between the bag and net. They all ate and nothing happened to them. After a while Rascal got brave enough to go in the bag and pig out on the food. Came out, went back in and ate more- three times! Foxface started approaching, circling everything at a safe distance, eyeing it all sideways. Eventually he would come up and bite at the food through the bag, but he'd never go near the opening. Even two of the angelfish went in the bag, grabbed food, backed out- nothing happened bad happened to them and still Foxface wouldn't go in. That fish is just too wary, and too smart.

I waited for over an hour. He never went in. Finally I lost my patience. Said to myself: this is why I have planter baskets and hardscape on bare bottom- to make this kind of job a bit easier. I took off the light strip, the glass lids, and started lifting things out of the tank. All the hardscape and smaller pieces of plants on rock and wood. The only things I didn't take out were the filters and planted baskets. I had three trays with wet stuff around me. It still took a good twenty minutes of angling around with two nets, to finally catch that fish. He was rather scraped up from dashing around, but by that time I didn't feel very sorry for him. I put him in the QT and he immediately hid in his old spot under the heater, breathing fast. He barely fits there anymore. I wasn't imagining things, he's really doubled in size over the past month. I held my finger near to estimatte his body size and then used a ruler- he's a good three inches now! Whereas I think Rascal is just an inch and a half still. 

Some people tell me that after a problematic fish spends a week in "time out" it will behave better when re-introduced to the aquarium. But I don't know if I want to put him back on the chance that he changes his behavior. If he doesn't, it's a lot of trouble to get him out of the tank again. Remains to be seen, how Rascal will act without the bigger festivum in there. Right now things are calm- the angels and one smaller festivum move around easily, nobody threatens. 

Sad thing is I lost a kuhli loach. The older one, Albert, that I'd had for six years. I hadn't seen him in a while so was starting to wonder. Then just yesterday I saw him when the others came out to eat, but he didn't move around as much- I thought he was being shy but maybe he's been unwell. I cleaned the tank floor thoroughly with siphon and did a water change after catching Foxface, before I put all the hardscape and plants back in- because in spite of my care, stuff did get stirred up kind of a mess. After I refilled the tank and was moving the wastewater buckets from the area, that's when I found Albert. In the bucket, too late to save him. If he'd been alive when caught by the siphon. I don't know. I kind of suspect he wasn't.

angels update 9

I did a salt bath for Shirley. And finally, some real improvement! She tolerated it quite well- was calm during the actual bath. I used 1 TB aquarium salt per gallon and made her bath 3 gal. I didn't want her to feel cramped. But I think 1.5 or 2 gal would have been enough. It was when I dipped out half the salt bath and started replacing with some fresh water - to do a gradual readjustment- that she started darting around frantically. I netted her out, dipped into the recovery bucket of fresh tankwater, then straight back into the tank.

She hid from me for a bit. Now looks fine, swims expectant to the front glass again but when I approach with the camera she's a bit leery. So no very close photos yet, but now I can clearly see the edge of her lip, without the fungus blot over it. 

Other news from the tank: I think I will have to get rid of Foxface, sigh. And maybe the other one. For a while now I've noticed him pestering the angelfishes- he glides slowly but deliberately straight at one of them, and the angel will tilt its body sideways, or its nose up (a submissive posture?) then dash away. Sometimes he chases them. Which would be fine, except now I sometimes see him jab at the other fish at the end of his glide, and a speck will float free, and he darts sideways to grab it. Is he eating their scales?! He's also eating the hornwort, and browned tips of vallisneria leaves, and there are very few snails left in the tank- except the two nerites. That's fine, but not this! 

Little Rascal remains rather timid- but I don't know if the smaller festivum would start being aggressive to the angels if I removed the dominant Foxface. I've read that male festivum can be nasty tempered, while the females are calm and mild-mannered. Don't know which genders mine are, or if that's true.

angels update 8

Since the last time I posted about this, there's some improvement.

Fins are almost clear on both gold angels, but not quite.

I'm very tempted to try giving them a salt bath. Since last time I posted about this, Nitrates have remained below 10ppm and I've done 30% wc every other day. Eased up on them because some of the plants are starting to look shabby. Keeping the water extra clean means less nutrients for them. However there's also another issue. Precious ate some of my aponogeton bolivianus!

I saw her mouth the leaves yesterday and thought she must be getting in breeding mood again, and is cleaning. But then she started tugging on it, and wrenching the tips of other leaves. Was she just overdoing the cleaning action? or super hungry? maybe I've let up a bit too much on the feeding. I really hope she isn't going to grow into an angelfish that eats my plants, and doubly hope the other won't follow her example!

Foxface, by the way, has been growing so fast. I think he's a full two inches now. But this small raised scale on his side concerns me. It's gotten a little bigger, definitely looks like what Sam had. Still hard to get a photo of it, because the fish rarely stays still! but visible as a shadow at certain angles- it's on his left side, about half an inch behind the pectoral fin. Two days ago:

Today:

When Sam had this I never knew what it was- a tumor? cyst? viral lymphocystis? bacterial fish TB? Looking for answers again. Found a description that sounded exactly the same- a lump that starts under the scale, grows bigger, breaks open into a sore (not at that stage yet w/Foxface). The site I read about it someone said it's an abscess, and treatment is to put the fish in hospital tank when the swelling gets larger, then after it bursts open do tons of water changes and use anti-bacterial medication (or aquarium salt failing that). Also possible to swab the wound with iodine or potassium permangenate. Well, at least I still have my QT running, sigh. 

Miss Beautiful?

Not sure what's going on in my tank. I thought things were getting better- Shirley's lip continues to gradually improve. I did a 40% wc today. I've kept the temp at 76-77° thinking the cooler temp will help get rid of what looks like fungus on her lip and faintly on a few of their fins still. But I think the cooler temp is stressing Miss Beautiful. Or she is getting bullied now. She's been hiding behind the plants under the heater all day. Came out for breakfast- after all the other fishes- but not for midday feeding. Last night I'd noticed she was only moving one gill plate- I guess from the same injury that caused the scratch on her side? did she bang into something again? 

Also alarming, all the fishes were acting twitchy after the water change today. Jerking their fins around as if to shake something off, the angels swinging their heads too. I only did one thing different- which was to pour the new water into the tank through a water bottle that has many holes punched in it (my fish trap for kuhlis) because I thought as it breaks up the water flow, less stressful for them, than how I usually to do it (pouring from a pitcher into a cup held at water surface). Was it something about that? Rascal showing stripes:

I tested the water parameters again- Ammonia zero, Nitrites zero, Nitrates just below10 ppm, pH 7.8 (normal for here). I can't think what could be wrong- I feel like I should continue to do the large wc every other day until Shirley's lip fungus is all gone- but don't want Miss Beautiful to keep acting stressed or in shock.

On the other hand, the golden sisters sure are feeling fine. Came home from an errand- several hours after the wc- to find Shirley alternately cleaning and fanning an aponogeton leaf- she looked a lot slimmer- and I watched her lay one egg, which Precious behind her promptly ate. Precious herself looks very plump so I expect to see her laying eggs soon. Or it's just because she ate them all!

Shirley worked at cleaning, chasing other fish away, fanning, even when there wasn't an egg on the leaf at all- as if she knows all the proper actions but doesn't have them in the right sequence. Useless, anyway. 

Miss Beautiful meanwhile, under the heater very close to their apono leaf, wasn't bothered at all. In fact several times I saw one or the other gold angel slide under the heater into the space with her- but not pick at her or threaten, just rest by her side companionably. Miss Beautiful's color would come back when they were next to her. The gold angel would move off and she'd go dark and washed-out again.

So I think if she's stressed from being harassed, it's by Foxface. I still really like that fish, but am starting to think I shouldn't have bought him. Some plants are showing tears and holes- he might be trying to eat them, too. I gave him a good amount of seaweed today- the younger angels will eat a bit of it, Miss Beautiful ignores it entirely, Foxface gets most. Thought it would help for him to have more greens . . . The smaller festivum doesn't pester anyone- I wonder if it turns out Foxface is male and Rascal is female, would it work better to just keep the female. But I don't know how to tell unless they pair off, and also not sure if one would do well alone w/just the angels . . . 

On another note, there's a new val americana coming up in the middle of that planter basket!

angels update 6

Going to keep posting progress I guess until she's all clear. Still a bit of white on the lip, but noticeably less.

Nitrates 10 ppm this morning. More disagreements among the fishes. The two golden angels look ready to lay eggs- both have plump bellies and breeding tubes out. But they seem to be hanging out with each other, and Miss Beautiful is hiding in the back-

(That's the newly-planted aponogeton bolivianus in front of her. With rocks leaning on the bulb to keep it in place until the roots hold on). 

She's got a scrape on one side, and some missing scales.

I don't know who's culpable- the golden angels? Shirley has been cleaning plants and Precious has been chasing others- but Foxface has been darting rather hard at other fish too. Maybe food aggressive. Somebody on the forum told me his "oscars and dempseys used to put back a ton of food in the adolescent/ sub adult stage" and suggested I try to target-feed the festivum, train him to eat from my hand. Today I was able to give him extra bites at feeding time via tweezers.

But if he's beating up Miss Beautiful that makes me very sad, and I'll have to change something. Feeding them more or maybe adding smaller dither fish. Tricky balance though because I don't want to overfeed or end up with a lot more work to keep the tank clean . . . 

angels update 3

The good- everyone is eating well, no signs of stress (except the smaller festvium sometimes shows his stripes). In fact, Shirley went so eagerly for food today I thought she was going to break the surface and bonk her head on the tank lid. White patches on the golden sisters' fins are smaller, but there are more of them. (This is Precious).

Redness under the skin, and Shirley's lip, look unchanged. Treatment round isn't done yet, and I'm glad to see they're tolerating it well so far, but I'm getting pretty anxious about her mouth. 

Festviums:

more fish lip photos

Last night, Foxface looked recovered-

and this morning when I turned on the light to check, I can barely see the spot on his lip. It's almost completely gone.

Shirley is a little better- from the side her lip doesn't look as 'pouty', and the spot on her fin is smaller-

but the white on her lip still concerns me. 

I went through my fish cabinet to see what meds I have on hand. Plenty of aquarium salt. I had Furan-2 but it's long expired (2017). I have some Kanaplex, Erythromycin and API Fungus Cure (victoria green and acriflavine), but not enough for a full dose. Going to the better LFS that's 40 min away, see what else I can get to treat the tank (and maybe they have General Cure, too). I think since some of the other fish have had small wounds/fungus in the past few days, it would be best to treat them all.

Amused to see this happened this morning:

Miss Beautiful hadn't laid eggs in a long time, since I took away her mate.

It's probably the extra feedings, and richer food, that's prompted her to. Hard to give the younger angels three feedings a day without Miss Beautiful getting extra. I've found that half a cube of frozen food is too much- they all get plump bellies and there's still bits floating around the tank (kuhlis are feasting). That's even if I give the tiniest bits in strained slurry to the guppies and minnows. I'm going to thaw just a third or quarter of a cube next time.

fish health

I've done thirty precent water changes today and yesterday. New heater is keeping the tank steady at 76-77° (house is 72° so it is working) I was going to bump it up to 78° but decided not to because some of the fish still have a bit of fungus, and cooler water slows that. Foxface is getting better rapidly- the white on his lip just a spot in the middle now

Hard to see, almost just looks like a highlight from the side- 

He and Rascal have been eating all the snails (except my nerites). So now I have more dead leaves to clean up on wc days (not a big deal) but also more algae growing on the glass (annoying). I think I'll either drop more malaysian trumpet snails in here- they hide at night so more might survive- or get one of those magnet algae cleaner things for the front glass.

Miss Beautiful looks fine- aside from the tear in her tail, which looks smaller so it's healing already

The gold angel, Precious, has a few small pale patches on her tail- fungus?

And the koi angel, Shirley, is the one I'm worried about. The white spot on her lip, looks like she's pouting from the side-

I looked back on pictures I took when I first got her home, and she had white spot on the lip then, so she's had this a while? or it started with stress from the move.

She's now also got a white patch on the left pectoral fin- probably from being roughed around by Miss Beautiful. During the day things seem relatively peaceful in the tank- and Miss Beautiful seems to have accepted Precious. But for some reason at night, when the blue 'moonlight' is on, she relentlessly chases Shirley around the tank. Awkward photo here with reflection in it, but can see the mark on Shirley's fin.

I also tried to get some frontal photos (really like these for the eyes)

Debating if I should put Shirley in quarantine, to give her some medicine . . . 

tanks update

The good first- crypt moehlmanii I moved a little while ago, has done just fine. I took some photos of it unfurling the leaf a few days in succession,

now it's fully open and sprouting another one!

Not much else to say about this tank, except that there's more white cloud minnow fry! I've counted six or seven, but they're still so small hard to see. Fed the last of the guppy fry in the 10g to my angelfish tank yesterday- I think Foxface ate it. The two adult females that are holding the QT cycled look well, a lot more relaxed, too- I think being in the large tank the only small fish with a big predator made them nervous. 

Front corner of that tank now has a loose clump of moss that came with the new angels- and most of the subwassertang that's gotten inadvertently pulled out with water changes, I've dropped into a windowsill jar with a single tiny snail. Again. Don't even remember noting when I took the last one down.

My two new golden angels look well-settled into the 55- in fact, last night Shirley and Precious were both cleaning leaves on the crypt balansae, and the airlift tube. Precious was particularly energetic about it, this time. And she looks a tad plump, and her breeding tube is more prominent. 

But the tank is having heater issues, which is aggravating. Yesterday I plugged in the new replacement heater, but left the older one that was faltering, and the spare, in place, in case I needed to still use them. Good thing I did.

(Foxface liked resting between them, against the wall)

New heater doesn't seem to be working. Indicator light never came on. Temp in the tank started dropping again. I worried because yesterday two of the fish had white on their lips- it could be the start of a mouth fungus, due to the unstable temperatures. I did a partial water change and they seem better- these photos are from the next day, which I took to compare if it keeps improving or gets worse again. Shirley had a white blob on her upper lip twice this size when I first saw it:

and Foxface had the entire upper lip was white before-

But can also see that the thing on Foxface's chin hasn't gone away, it got bigger again. Sigh.

So I unplugged the new heater, and plugged back in the old one and the spare. Temp went back up to normal- 78° is where I have it set now. Then an hour later, I suddenly heard a noise in the tank, like extra air running. Saw a stream of bubbles, much stronger than from a broken leaf. It was coming from the older, failing heater. I promptly unplugged it and pulled it out. Seam cracked on the bottom of it. So that one's done for. Got out my other spare heater and put that one in the tank. I have no more heaters. These two small ones are okay for emergency use but I really do need a larger one for long-term in here!

Went back and read the instruction leaflet, read some on forums about heater malfunctions. Supposedly this heater brand is known to have problems with the indicator light. Argh. Also it's supposed to be left set to run for a whole twenty-four hours before adjusting the temperature knob. Well, I decided to try that before driving to the store for replacement. Maybe it's not calibrated properly and will kick on at a lower temp and then I just have to adjust it up higher than you'd think, to hold the temp where I want it.

Plugged back in the new heater, unplugged the two spares. Set my house thermostat to let the room get warmer, 74-75°, so at least if the heater fails to kick on, the fish won't die outright from cold. It made sleeping uncomfortable, so I woke up middle of night to check on them! It's only fallen to 76° so far. I'm giving it another few hours then I'll try adjusting then I'll start making some complaints. 

On another note, I bought new frozen food, with the younger angels in mind. Haven't used frozen foods in a long time and I remember why now. It's messy! but the fishes do love it. Also tried feeding dried seaweed (nori with no added salt or preservatives or anything) for more greens. Guppies, minnows, shrimps and kuhlis loved it. In the large tank I was giving it for the festivums, but I think only Rascal actually ate it. The young angels were game to try and spit it out (no surprise). Frozen foods I got were beef heart, brine shrimp and a mysis shrimp mix with greens in it (spirulina, romaine, etc). I really wanted to get daphnia that's supposed to be better than peas for giving fish a source of fiber, but haven't ever seen any for sale.